Bryon Lake has had more than 15 years’ experience in the ETF industry. Starting off in a hedge fund, he landed a job at what was then a very small company called PowerShares – before it was bought by Invesco – and worked his way up at the firm. After launching the ETF business in London, he moved to JP Morgan Asset Management, which has a global ETF range of more than 45 products and over $20 billion in assets.

Bryon talked about his beginnings in a start-up – including stuffing envelopes at the weekend – and how that experience taught him the importance of cultivating the right team and workplace culture for success.

Can you tell us a little about how you got into the industry?

Bryon Lake: I had the really good fortune of finding myself across the table from Bruce Bond, the original founder of the PowerShares business, as well as Ben Fulton, who ran it globally for the better part of a decade, through some friends in the Chicago area. Within about 30 seconds of the conversation we realised we were all alumni of the same school. I spoke with them and not long after I was working for them. And at this point, almost 15 years ago, the whole ETF industry was less than $100 billion. PowerShares had maybe a handful of products, with around $100 to $200 million AUM, but it was extremely early days for the entire industry. From my point of view, I was so fortunate to be part of a super innovative start-up in a growing industry.

Was it really a start up and if so, what was that like?

BL: It was a very small office – we were rammed next to each other. I sat next to Bruce and Ben and listened to their day to day conversations about running the business. It was the kind of place where we were stuffing envelopes at the weekend and emptying our own garbage cans. For sales, we looked through magazines to identify people who had even used the word ‘ETF’. All of our materials would get sent to the office in these big boxes, and we would have to put the phones down and pick the boxes out of the truck, stack them in the closet, and lay them out in an assembly line. We had hundreds of these boxes delivered, and it took hours, just five or six of us, carrying them through. We had a running joke with the head of marketing that he would disappear whenever he knew we were getting a delivery.

In many ways back then I got a taste for building things. We were building PowerShares as an entrepreneurial start-up. I moved to London to build that business here. Two and a half years ago it was the same thing at JP Morgan, starting from scratch. I was told, ‘Here’s a computer, go figure it out’. But by that point I’d had the good fortune of being involved in the initial build-out of certain areas of the ETF industry.

Do you miss anything about those slightly haphazard start-up days?

BL: The boundaries for our industry and the potential for creativity, in terms of what hadn’t been done, were vast. There were huge chunks of space that hadn’t been developed – it was more about how brand new and vast that space was. Investors loved it, but the platforms we were working with had no guidelines how to evaluate ETFs or do due diligence on them. So much of what was done in the industry – the biotech funds, the international dividends funds – those were all firsts.

But what we’re doing now is more similar than different in a lot of respects. We’re still hungry and scrappy, but we are operating in the broader context of a large organisation with resources.

Q: Since you started out, what has surprised you in a negative and positive way about the ETF industry?

BL: I’m very bullish on the market and am always amazed by how much more education needs to happen. I’m always looking for opportunities to educate those outside the ETF bubble to tell them how it’s evolving and changing.

In many ways it’s hard to hold two juxtaposing thoughts at the same time: there are almost $6 trillion assets globally, but you could see how it could grow to $30 trillion. It’s huge and yet it could be much bigger. A lot of that could be down to education and helping clients with their portfolios.

I’m always surprised by how positive the ETF community is, and by the genuine interaction you can have and how much collaboration happens within the industry. We’ve only begun to scratch the surface in terms of the innovation that can happen through the ETF wrapper over the next decade. I’m always encouraged by that and am encouraged by how the industry continues to put investors first.

How do you ensure that you don’t get comfortable in this industry and therefore halt your own career growth?

BL: I think people approach this industry with the mindset of personal growth, of creative ideas and improving investment outcomes. We go home every day with more things on our to do list than when we started. We’re obsessed with thinking everything through in the right way, whether in marketing, distribution, capital markets – there are so many facets and so much opportunity for us to improve, evolve and innovate around – so that is not an issue with our team. The issue is trying to find balance and having room to breathe. There’s not an ounce of complacency here. We have such big aspirations for the business that it just [being comfortable] doesn’t happen.

What lessons did you learn and bring over into your new role at JP Morgan?

BL: At JP the first lesson was building out the right team: making sure we had the right level of expertise. Because JPM is such a big place they had to be part of our team but also fit that culture into the broader context. There are certain approaches that work and some that don’t. We placed great effort into getting the team and culture right.

Then we made sure we had a sound platform and foundation for the business from an operational standpoint, and that we had really compelling products that added to the overall conversation. We didn’t want “me too” product. And finally, we needed to make sure we had a compelling proposition in our sales strategy and take those products to market in an exciting and compelling way. We did it in that order and that was intentional.

Has the advice you give to newcomers been consistent or evolved over time?

BL: There are some things that stay consistent. We have a joke around here that the hard work is the work. There’s no difference between fun work and hard work if you’re doing it the right way. So, making sure we take ownership of our work and are responsible for what we’re delivering, rather than just paper pushing.

Then I’ve found that as I have broader conversations, you start to understand people’s strengths and weaknesses – there’s an element of understanding where they’re coming from and putting yourself in their shoes, coaching and directing them towards success and what they’re trying to accomplish.

What are your goals, both personally and for your company over the next few years?

BL: We want to build a really big cool ETF business. We think that, based on our team and our organisation, that we have some really dynamic and game-changing things that we can bring to investors and therefore the industry. We think the industry continues to grow at a rapid pace and the innovative things we’re doing on the product, capital market, distribution and marketing side will have a huge impact on what the industry will look like and how investors use ETFs in five to ten years’ time. For example, on the product side, we think fixed income is going to be a very interesting space and active management will play a big part in that. I think we will look back in 10 years and say, ‘Wow, JP Morgan built a really compelling proposition in the active fixed income space.’

Jillian DelSignore is head of ETF Distribution at J.P. Morgan’s Asset Management business and is responsible for leading the sales efforts and strategy in the intermediary and institutional markets. She has also been recently appointed co-president of Women in ETFs. Jillian sat down with Jobs in ETFs to share her career journey and tips on how to make it to the top as a woman.

“You can absolutely find the opportunity to grow in the industry if you allow yourself to ebb and flow with what comes to you. ” 

Jobs In ETFs (JE): Can you explain briefly how you progressed your career and what your roles involved?

DelSignore:  I have spent the vast majority of my career as a salesperson and have had the opportunity to work with nearly every type of client from retail advisors to RIAs to institutions. It provided me with a unique lens into so many parts of the industry and how the usage of ETFs can differ from client to client. After spending about ten years in external sales, I joined JPMorgan in my current role as Head of ETF Distribution. It was an amazing opportunity to be a part of building a new business within one of the most respected Asset Managers in the industry. 

JE: What does your typical day look like and what are you enjoying most about your new role?

DelSignore:  One of the things I love so much about my job is that every day is a bit different. As Head of ETF Distribution, one of the things I have responsibility for is managing a team of ETF sales specialists who spend their time working with advisors and institutional investors educating on all things JPMorgan ETFs. Working with my team and spending time with our clients is an exciting part of my day to day. I am also on the ETF Management team so am involved in interesting strategy discussions on our distribution, marketing, product and broader initiatives as we look at different ways to grow the business. Over the last two years I’ve also spent a good bit of time with the media talking about our client and products trends as well as our business growth. The days are never the same but always interesting!

JE: What were some of your most important career turning points?

DelSignore:  When I reflect back on my career so far, three events strike me as big turning points. The first was very early on just a few years out of college when I made the decision to move into sales. It was actually my father who helped me recognize that I thrive and get true enjoyment out of working on a team and being in front of people (clients) each day. It was then that I made the decision to move away from a career that would’ve been more portfolio management focused to client and sales focused. Father knows best!

The second was my move into the ETF industry in early 2009. I wish I could say I knew then that the industry would grow the way it has but at that point I was still a bit green frankly. It was more about joining an exciting “new” industry at the time and a team of people I really enjoyed working with. Sometimes you just have to trust your gut, jump in and then work really really hard. The head of the team I joined became my sponsor and biggest influence in my career. She believed in me and my abilities which was so much of what propelled me forward during those early years. Needless to say, that was a big turning point for me.

After years on that team and gaining meaningful experience about the industry and all sorts of clients, I had the opportunity to come to JPMorgan in a leadership role. Joining this team was equally as big a turning point because it was an opportunity to build not only a team but a business. It was an incredible opportunity to be a part of something new, a part of building what we all knew would be successful but not without a lot of hard work.

JE: What do you look for in the people you hire?

DelSignore:  When I first got to JPMorgan I did a lot of hiring as we built out the sales team. It grew from 2 people to 17 people in the course of about 18 months. Three things I really looked for:

Entrepreneurial spirit- this was and is a new business for the firm and having that fire in the belly to own his or her own business was critical. You have to want to be a part of a team that is growing and changing rapidly. 

Team focused – this is incredibly important at any stage of a business or one’s career. Someone on my team has dozens of partners he or she works with day to day not even including those on our own team. Successful partnerships and embracing teamwork can have a large impact on someone’s long term success. 

Adaptability – one of the things that is certain in life is change, especially in a growing business. In a new business you wear a lot of hats and your job is likely to evolve as the team grows so finding people comfortable with that change is important. 

JE: Is having a mentor important? Did you have one or were you a mentor to anyone?

DelSignore:  I think having a mentor is very important in one’s career. I have been lucky enough to have a few mentors in my career and one key sponsor. Something that is often overlooked is the difference between a mentor and a sponsor. A sponsor is more someone who extends her or himself or has something on the line to help you expand your career opportunities versus only providing advice. It’s an important distinction and both can play important roles in your career. 

I try to pay it forward whenever I can and have mentored a number of women and men over the years. All of those have happened naturally through our regular interactions either through the firm we worked for or through Women in ETFs. In my experience natural mentorships tend to be more effective. Not that those that are manufactured can’t work, but my experience has been better in those that evolve naturally.

In addition to mentors or sponsors, I’ve found peer advisors to be important in my career development. This is someone who is in a similar stage in her career and is perhaps going through a similar change or milestone. Talking through your unique challenges during that time can be incredibly valuable. 

JE: Throughout your career, how did you know it was the right time to move roles/companies?

DelSignore:  Honestly, I don’t know that you ever really know with complete confidence that it’s the right time but you have to follow your gut- or at least that’s what I’ve done. I’ve focused on not only the job opportunity but also the people and culture of the organization or team. I wanted to find opportunities that provided a runway for growth and something that challenged me each day. This is also where a peer advisor can be very helpful as an outside observer helping you think objectively about specific opportunities. 

JE: What advice would you give to people starting out in the ETF industry today?

DelSignore:  I would tell them to take the risk. Jump in with both feet if it feels right to you. I would also tell them to be adaptable. It is still a young industry relatively speaking and things are changing rapidly. You can absolutely find the opportunity to grow in the industry if you allow yourself to ebb and flow with what comes to you. 

JE: You spoke at the Annual Women in ETFs breakfast at Inside ETFs in Florida. What was the core message of your presentation/discussion? 

DelSignore:  As the incoming Co-President of Women in ETFs this year, I had the opportunity to moderate the panel at our annual Inside ETFs breakfast. The conversation with Lynn Blake and Jenny Johnson covered a lot of important topics including the impact of women in the c-suite and the importance of gender diversity on an organization. Something that has evolved out of that event is the Women in ETFs Speakers Bureau. Women are woefully underrepresented on panels at industry conferences and instead of just talking about it, we decided to do something about it by creating the Speakers Bureau. It contains the names of women throughout all parts of the industry who can speak as experts to any variety of topics- distribution, product, capital markets. We have spent time with some of the conference organizers to commit to improving the numbers together over the next 18 months. It is on all of us to work to get there. 

JE: What changes are you most excited about in the industry at the moment?

DelSignore:  I think about this time in the ETF industry as the beginning of the next chapter. There have been a lot of new entrants into the business over the last half decade and you’ve seen interesting product development follow in areas like factor investing as example. There is still white space that an asset manager like JPMorgan can help fill in areas such as fixed income and alternatives. We hear from clients that those are exposures where they still would like to see differentiated products- either active or non-market cap weighted. I think it is those providers who bring strong investment capability to the market who will ultimately lead in writing this next chapter. 

Bryon Lake is one of the most respected figures in the ETF industry, moving up the ranks over 15 years from interning at hedge fund to managing ETFs at a major asset management firm. He talks to Jobs in ETFs about why he left Invesco PowerShares after a decade and his advice to ‘always do the dirty work.’

“The industry is really competitive, as I said, and everyone is smart, well-resourced and trying to do cool things so the biggest challenge is coming up with the new thing.” 

JE: Please tell us about yourself and your experience. What was your first job in the ETF industry? How did you decide to pursue a career in the industry, what was the pivotal moment?

Bryon: I had graduated college and moved to Chicago, was working in banking and I interned at a hedge fund – just for a cup of coffee, for a year or two – then I got introduced to this financial adviser. He said, ‘You should talk to the guys at PowerShares, they’re doing some really interesting things.’

I drove out to the suburbs of Chicago and met the original founder, Bruce Bond. Prior to driving out there I had done a bit of homework, researched what they were trying to do, how they were positioning themselves, the media they were doing and I got the picture – I really wanted a job there. I articulated to him that ETFs seemed like they had a future and were a good way to invest. He responded to that and gave me a job straight away.

This was ten years ago, and PowerShares was an entrepreneurial start-up with less than $300 million under management, so I think what they first responded to was my eagerness to be part of something new. Building things had always been fun, and I was open minded. Not many people thought ETFs would become a multi-trillion-dollar industry.

Business culture is important. He saw me as a team player, someone who wanted to collaborate and work with others. Plus I had an energy. Warren Buffet says he looks for integrity, intelligence and energy, in that order, and it was probably similar for Bruce.

JE: What has been the highlight of your career?

Bryon: One of the biggest highlights is seeing other people I’ve worked with having success in their careers, or people I’ve had the privilege of managing. Seeing and sharing in others’ success and development has been a real pleasure.

I’ve made some really good friends in this industry – I always joke that, in soccer, you score a goal and slide in the grass, rip your shirt off, that kind of thing, and clearly that doesn’t happen enough in the ETF industry, it’s more like a small fist bump and ‘let’s grab a drink’, but there is something cool in seeing other people succeed.

JE: What is the best bit of advice you’ve received in your career?

Bryon: I’ve been extremely fortunate to have good managers, such as Bruce Bond, [former PowerShares managing director] Ben Fulton, Bobby Brooks: these are the early sales leaders in the ETF space.

There’s the cliché that you should try to put yourself in the other person’s shoes, whether you’re talking to people internally or externally, and try to understand where they are coming from and what they’re trying to accomplish. People like to do business with those they trust, who are working hard and not playing games. Also, treat people like you want to be treated. People say that a lot, but they are clichés for a reason.

JE: If you can give advice to those who are just starting in the ETF industry, what will it be?

Bryon: My advice for people would be to get excited about doing the dirty work, whether that’s building a deck for a new product and all the monotonous data analysis that comes with it, or something else.

It’s definitely like the film ‘Karate Kid’, where Mr Miyagi tells him how to paint the fence: doing the same thing thousands of times helps you develop the instinct to do other things well.

I started on the distribution side and I’ve had about 10,000 conversations with clients about ETFs and after that many times you develop an instinct as to what questions they will ask and what clients are thinking about. When you get into more strategic conversations, you can pull from that experience.

The industry is super competitive, everyone is really smart and works really hard so being willing to do that dirty work and the early monotony of some of these roles is so important. It’s rewarding from a personal level and helps you develop a skill set which is extremely valuable. 

JE: What key skills do you think are necessary to have in order to be employable and successful in the industry?

Bryon: It depends what type of role you want. For the normal roles and skill set, being able to build relationships and delivering complex topics in an easy-to-understand format, and communicating well, are all important.

On the product side there’s a lot of analytical stuff, but again, communication is key, as is being able to connect with people, being dependable and trustworthy.

JE: What has been your biggest challenge so far?

Bryon: That is the fun part, right? The industry is really competitive, as I said, and everyone is smart, well-resourced and trying to do cool things so the biggest challenge is coming up with the new thing. The market is really efficient, it’s a constant challenge we all have but one that I spent a disproportion amount of time on.

JE: Why did you take the new role at JP Morgan?

Bryon: I really respect my former colleagues and the firm, but I found I had an opportunity to build something at JP Morgan that was really exciting. The firm has strong leadership, a clear vision and an ambition to do something really cool in this space so I just got excited about that and felt I wanted to be a part of it.

It was a really difficult decision to leave PowerShares after ten years, particularly on the people side, as I’d grown up with these people and had respect for all of them but found it was probably the right time to take on new challenge.

JE: The growth of ETFs has been phenomenal. What would you say are the most significant changes in the ETF space in the past few years?

Bryon: Education, as I always say. It’s just clients and investors continuing to educate themselves on the product: on how vehicle works and the underlying proposition, as well as thinking of creative ways to use ETFs in their portfolio. There are new, creative products coming to market too, but the level of education has been the main change.

JE: What do you think is the “next big thing” – or what should we all keep an eye out for?

Bryon: Having a solution-oriented mindset. Not just being product developers but really sitting down and working closely with clients, trying to understand what they want to accomplish. JP Morgan is really kitted out to do that.